Algorithm: Argon2, Scrypt, POS

[BtcBob]

So while undertaking such a HUGE endevor. why not TOTALLY FUCK EVERYTHING Properly.. Just how?  We're currently a SCRYPT coin.. but why? Does it need to be, or should it be something different?

• A (Short) Guide to Blockchain Consensus Protocols
• https://bitcoinguide.online/a-list-of-cryptocurrency-algorithms/

Maybe you you mine BOB using Gridseeds ..or an ASIC cube.. Maybe you don't Mine at all, but you still want to create something out of nothing.

[EndCiv]

As to the question of Algo: I could go two ways.

• KEEP IT SCRYPT: Miners gonna mine.. Why not, we all bought this shit, and it's still working (sorta), why not let it Hash4eva and reward those who keep the blocks moving.
• Proof of Slack: Essentially 'Proof of Stake' -   Spin them all out to a magic wallet address.. maybe with multiple signatures required to move 'em, and let it ride off into the Econocalysm. Use the PreMine for exchanging old wallet/coins, bounties and stimulation rewards.

Personally, I favor PoS and have ALWAYS wanted to enable some kinda Master Node system where only the 'Space Bankers' had to keep track of a Block Chain, and thus reaping reward: If that were even at all possible.

 The BIGGEST complaint pink-users have is that they DON'T/WONT download the block-chain.. and they shouldn't have to.

I seriously have no idea how PoS chains move anyhow.
BuZz say's its like a CPU mining thing.
I guess just without block solving rewards.

[x_slacks]

Looks to be about 80 total shitcoins running Scrypt.  Scrypt was supposed to be a memory hard password hash(ie GPU & ASICS resistant), it is not...  Argon2 is where itʻs at for CPU only right now.  Maybe 5 are Argon2 based.  The current implementations I see are pretty hideous.   Dropped on AbcXyZfuckBoyCoin...  Not impressed.  Shit like this... https://github.com/OpesCoin/OPES

A .pro build?  Still?  Like, why did you even make a coin when you havenʻt touched the source in 3 years.  Probably donʻt know what to do.  Thatʻs what happens when you have no idea where you start from.  What other turds are cooked into that shit.

EndCiv....  Yes, we know you would like to horde all the slack to yourself.  Gotta think outside your cave sometimes.  While youʻre at it, please find me one *competent* PoW implementation with a segwit capable codebase, other than Qtum.  Then show me the market cap of the highest all PoS coins, and the latest trends with masternode based coins.  Three words...  Active-Sloth-Networking....

[EndCiv]

Why you like Argon2: Sell me please.
How is it being used to solve blocks and make chains.
Can it also be useful in hacking teh planet?

Making links for researching ARGON2:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon2
• https://password-hashing.net/
• You Tube: VIDEO

• https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5fhfx8/argon2_best_cryptocurrency_hash_function/

   No details.. sounds like a lemon to me so far..

• LEMONCOIN: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1392177.0      inspiring -sigh

  "winner of Pasword Hashing Competition and is one of the most secure algorithms available today."
   LEMON: PoW algorithm: Argon2 + Scrypt-jane(SCRYPT_SALSA64 SCRYPT_SKEIN512)

• ء بركة التعدين الخاصة بك ، الإعداد بركة دا

    Very helpful if you speak jibberish prolly.

• OPES OPES - NEW Argon2 algo - No ICO - CPU ONLY
• [ANN][AR2] Argon2Coin new PoW algo, CPU friendly

[x_slacks]

Like I said, garbage implementations... On exact same code base as OpeCoin...  And both mix argon2 with another hash and do weird shit...  Now, are you doing this for a purpose, or just randomly smashing two hashes together?  Whatʻs the purpose?

Hereʻs a hint...  Look at their source.  All some 0.8 coins, building of a .pro...  You only prove exactly what I said.

[BtcBob]

Like I said, garbage implementations... On exact same code base as OpeCoin...  And both mix argon2 with another hash and do weird shit...  Now, are you doing this for a purpose, or just randomly smashing two hashes together?  Whatʻs the purpose?

Hereʻs a hint...  Look at their source.  All some 0.8 coins, building of a .pro...  You only prove exactly what I said.

Can you say that again.. when you get time.
Only this time as if no one but you really understands what your talking about. I mean don't stop code'n on my account but I do love to read your mind as it spills out into the forum.

So many coins.. so many algo's, so many reasons for doing things. 
     From what i could gleen from some of the retardid links EndCiv left.. Argon2 is an algorythm that cracks passwords better than all the other ones in a contest, so I'm supposing its cracking the 'password' ..or solving the block.

[x_slacks]

Ok, so building from a .pro, means 0.8 code base using Qtʻs build system, because from 0.9 it was theuni I believe who did most of the work converting bitcoin to build with autotools, which also made it possible for gitian to start spitting out Mac wallets...  i.e..  The command line to build is:

./autogen.sh;./configure;make

Most of what you see is crusty code base, with typical blown out commit history...  Why?  Cause they followed the ABC/FooCoin tutorials and borked their git repos while awkʻing the name changes.

Why you like Argon2: Sell me please.

Argon2 is a password hashing algorithm...  Not a password cracker.  Itʻs purposed is actually to make cracking as difficult as *reasonably* possibly...  And is configurable to allow you tune how it performs... 

The big issue with Argon2 is this "fast verify" issue...  Meaning, if I run Argon2d with the Time Cost and Memory Cost at the lowest values(Leaving Parallelism at 1 thread)the lowest values  I push close to ~15,000Hash/s...   Now if I bump memory cost to 250MB(Argon2 Team Recommended), which bring in a decent level of memory cost...  I now only push out ~3Hash/s...

Now where this becomes a problem is in blockchain verification.  So, imagine you have 100,000 PoW block hashes you need to verify the first time you load up the chain or something like...  With double SHA256 like in bitcoin, that is a fraction a second(iʻm only talking hashes, not other program overhead)...  Even Scrypt pushes numbers in the teens of KH/s on per core on modern cpus...  But when youʻre pushing a much lower hash rate algo, those fractions of a second can turn into hours...  Also can affect new block verification, because it is slow.

Sounds scary and shit, right?  Dobbscoin is a Litecoin clone, and already setup to discard the PoW hash after mining...  Looks at Bitcoin block explorer....  See all the 0000000000ʻs in front of their block hashes?  Look at Litecoin, no Zeros...  Looks at Dobbscoin, no Zeros... See this Litecoin commit, specifically the comment on the changes to src/txdb.cpp for a more technical explanation...

https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/commit/4b588c670cca56e1addec2bc8fb69528e9c7a0bb

Still, 3Hashes/s per core doesnʻt seem like a good idea.  Scrypt speeds for me are about on par with minimum value Argon2d @ ~15khs... 

....  Had to step away from this reply for a sec...  back...  and with a little more info...  Memory setting of "10 << 10", produces ~10MB memory usage and ~3khs....  Memory setting of "(10 << 10) * 10" is ~100MB memory usage and ~10H/s...  Kinda zen watching hashes float across the screen at a rate that you can almost read each one...

This is of course the results on my system.  i7-4770@4Ghz, 32GB DDR3-1667, OSX Sierra Hackintosh.

[skammie]

I kind of have to agree here.  Many of us that are still mining Dobbscoin are using old ASICs that we bought for various reasons.  I don't think I would even use my scrypt rig if dobbscoin moves to a different algo.  After some thought, I don't really care which algo dobbscoin goes with because I could pawn off my rig on ebay.

Perhaps if the algorithm is changed it would be nice to implement PoS after a certain number of blocks, if possible.  I also understand the reluctance to do so because so many p&d coins used huge PoS rates to attract miners and investors.  This is just a little hobby for me.

I don't know enough about the coding side, but I do know that nothing is ASIC resistant.

As to the question of Algo: I could go two ways.

• KEEP IT SCRYPT: Miners gonna mine.. Why not, we all bought this shit, and it's still working (sorta), why not let it Hash4eva and reward those who keep the blocks moving.
• Proof of Slack: Essentially 'Proof of Stake' -   Spin them all out to a magic wallet address.. maybe with multiple signatures required to move 'em, and let it ride off into the Econocalysm. Use the PreMine for exchanging old wallet/coins, bounties and stimulation rewards.

Personally, I favor PoS and have ALWAYS wanted to enable some kinda Master Node system where only the 'Space Bankers' had to keep track of a Block Chain, and thus reaping reward: If that were even at all possible.

 The BIGGEST complaint pink-users have is that they DON'T/WONT download the block-chain.. and they shouldn't have to.

I seriously have no idea how PoS chains move anyhow.
BuZz say's its like a CPU mining thing.
I guess just without block solving rewards.

So maybe there's still a question of what Algo to use in a reward-less PoS algo Got me!

[x_slacks]

Please donʻt think Iʻm just disregarding miners, and whoʻs been kicking the can forward.  Especially those that have been holding it down in the last 6 months, where things really could have gone sideways or just fallen off.

Since the halving, miners have only been getting half the slack they deserve.  I canʻt go back and know who mined what, and who deserves what.  I do know from my overtrolling who the top miners have been recently.

I would like to know if miners affected by the halving really feel injured, or if they can accept that they got in where they didnʻt have to split blocks with 1000 other bobbies.  Which, Iʻm imagining will be the case soon.

Scrypt was supposed to be CPU only.  It was the GPU whales, and Gridseeds than pushed the average bobbie out the mining game.

I think "crypto" somehow took over Dobbscoin...  and we just need to get back on the track to slack...

PoS...  Iʻm not 100% against it...  But right now bringing the code base current with Bitcoin 0.16, and getting it build able again for exchanges and services is needed.

[BtcBob]

Please donʻt think Iʻm just disregarding miners, and whoʻs been kicking the can forward.

Since the halving, miners have only been getting half the slack they deserve.  I canʻt go back and know who mined what, and who deserves what. 
..
Scrypt was supposed to be CPU only.
..
PoS...  Iʻm not 100% against it...  But right now bringing the code base current with Bitcoin 0.16, and getting it build able again for exchanges and services is needed.

Ya Ya.. EndCiv is butthurt cos he don't mine no more and has a fat sack, butt fuck that noise.. what I worried about was the cat's who've  mined "BOB" all along.. they saw it go from CPU to gridseed.. bought some of those.. then in a month had to buy a blade.. then a thunder - thousands of conspiracy dollars worth of scrypt mining hardware about  to be useless, unless they want to start mining LTC. 

'Cos ya know Argon2 will be GPU in a year and then what?  Start buying that..

I kind of have to agree here.  Many of us that are still mining Dobbscoin are using old ASICs that we bought for various reasons.  I don't think I would even use my scrypt rig if dobbscoin moves to a different algo.  After some thought, I don't really care which algo dobbscoin goes with because I could pawn off my rig on ebay.

Perhaps if the algorithm is changed it would be nice to implement PoS after a certain number of blocks, if possible.  I also understand the reluctance to do so because so many p&d coins used huge PoS rates to attract miners and investors.  This is just a little hobby for me.

ONLY YOUR KIND is the kind who actually CARES about "BOB"..  and if The Kind of Kind what cares for "BOB" could get some, without having to compete against typical scamcioners.. they would LOVE to hold it on a Coinomi wallet or some other no-whole block chain device..

If it went POS:  Pay decent interest for 210,000 blocks, then peg it at X% until the end of days and ride off into the sunset.  If they wanted to mine LTC they could, if not - just sit back and Slack Off.   

Typical SubGenius is the market.. and the typical SubGenius doesn't want to have to dedicate a small hard drive to a coin wallet.. or to fuck around with account maintenance.. they want to have a bag they can back up to their google drive and forget it unless they want to collect interest.  SOME of US like to play with altcoins.. and mining.. but it's not  the typical SubGenius - which would if they could..  but can't because they don't  -YETi

[x_slacks]

His noise helps me get some things out that I may not have fully expounded upon, though..   So heʻs doing his duty.

EndCiv:  Sorry if it comes out a little rough and hard...  I perfected my troll on the IRC channels as a teen in the 90ʻs...  You would classify me a "grey hat", who would punish the wannabe black hats that stepped out of line.  Well, I just pretty much picked on everyone... Global-kOS, cDc, it didnʻt matter.  See, I was a FreeBSD guy, and all the "hackers" ran linux.  So, I was renegade.  My FreeBSD boxes were never breeched.  Linux was full of holes back then.  Plus, I was sitting on MAE-WEST with 3 full T3ʻs at my disposal.  You donʻt come back when the internet to your whole city has been down for a week, and all the reasons why points to you.  Back to AOL fuckboy...  Hahahahah

Bob:  I was the GPU guy.  You took me out the game with a Gridseed.  Really, the whales started the warring.  This is where Iʻm saying "crypto" took over, and the slack end of things got overshadowed.  Setting that bar so high, that I have to buy an expensive dedicated device to receive some slack...  Itʻs the econoclypse..  Itʻs the conspiracy...  They really trying to hold back slack.  I dig it, and again, did you do it for the $, or for the love of "BOB"?  Though I do intend to make it more possible for everyone to know/see/feel the true value of slack.

Can we be sure there will be GPU Argon2d in six months?  I see no Argon2D + GPU projects out...  If anybody makes it, it will probably be me.  Iʻm pretty sure you wonʻt get the same advantage GPU over CPU as with Scrypt.  My GPU can run 2048 threads of scrypt..  Just quick brain guestimation, my 280x would only be able to run maybe 200 threads 10t x 10m Argon2d.  Even less if we push memory costs up...  Worse comes to worse, Iʻll even break the ability to pool.  How does solo mine only sound?  I donʻt think you guys understand.  Iʻm gonna start bullying everyone in crypto.  Dobbscoin is where I can have fun, while still displaying my skills and abilities.  Which will help other projects I have in the works...   but my other projects arenʻt for play at all.

[BtcBob]

So you're a mobman/evilgoat/revpsych moco loco! 
My ass hurts already, but I'm in!!

I dig it, and again, did you do it for the $, or for the love of "BOB"?  Though I do intend to make it more possible for everyone to know/see/feel the true value of slack.

Well I certainly didn't do it for love of "BOB", always had a love/hate relationship as far as that goes.. his pStench has always been a hard pheromone but the GRIN & his PIPE always bring me back around - Final Answer it was the Slack.

Wait a minute.. there was money in it? -I musta missed that somehow.

Can we be sure there will be GPU Argon2d in six months?  I see no Argon2D + GPU projects out...  If anybody makes it, it will probably be me.

One can be sure of nothing, which is why the consensus has been that the SpaceBankers need a final solution ..ya know in case the lead developer disappears for 3+ years between upgrades    leaving us with the likes of earlz and androidDev to pull our unconcious meat-sacks out of a fire pit. /me whistles

That's why I lean toward POS, but I'll go with the flow is it's got gravity.
Pool Mining or No Pool Mining.. Always best to not break a thing unless it needs breaking.

Unless yer like reeealy bored

[x_slacks]

As Google is total shit, and gives what it thinks you want.  I was finally able to find a GPU implementation of argon2.

https://gitlab.com/omos/argon2-gpu/tree/master/src/argon2-gpu-bench

Itʻs a benchmark program.  Not a miner.  But essentially the core of it can be adapted to a miner.  Iʻm able to compile it on my system..  Still trying to understand all the data it spits out, but from what Iʻm gathering so far Argon2 can be tuned to be GPU unfriendly, and possibly not cost beneficial over CPU mining.

Dunno if this is supposed to be the same benchmark, but they are talking about an earlier version of Argon2, the current version having been hardened from what info they gathered.

http://discussions.password-hashing.narkive.com/pYOIcGhK/phc-argon2-cpu-gpu-benchmarks

Maybe itʻs not about eliminating GPU & ASICS, but leveling the playing field and making costs balance out over the different mining platforms.  Either way, Argon2 has yet to be put through its paces...  Why not be the ones to put it to the test?

PoS can end up being a centralizing mechanism.  With the tenfolding...  Lets see how the slack spreads out...  It it stays a tight Bobbie circle, PoS might be a fun nother way to generate slack.  If it seems like there is a good distribution of slack, maybe not a bad idea.  But if we have some X-ternal source sucking up all the slack, and we donʻt rightly know who it is...  Things to think about.

leaving us with the likes of earlz and androidDev to pull our unconcious meat-sacks out of a fire pit

I learned in life, itʻs not nice to go around stealing all the shine.  Gotta leave opportunities available for others too.  You never know, it might just be that one thing that makes their life.  My dude gets grammy nominations as a recording engineer now.  3X his label owner tried to get me on the team in his position...  2 of those times I know were when my dude was tentatively on the team.  Iʻm not so hungry out here I canʻt let others eat.  Now what you do with those opportunities.....

[EndCiv]

leaving us with the likes of earlz and androidDev to pull our unconcious meat-sacks out of a fire pit

I learned in life, itʻs not nice to go around stealing all the shine.  Gotta leave opportunities available for others too.  You never know, it might just be that one thing that makes their life.

Says the man who roofied us then left us passed out by the fire.   
Yea, i mean ya never know.. maybe "BOB" IS what made AndroidDev & Earlz lives.

Hey, what the HELL.. We can always have Classic "BOB" running Scrypt and Dobbscoin on the Argon2 'til GPU makes people mad, and THEN fork it to PoS.

[x_slacks]

For the record, I have Zero problems with Earlz.  I actually like the fuck out of dude.  His music rocks, and I really think heʻs a top coin dev.  Heʻs just a young hungry dude who puts a lot on his plate and maybe didnʻt quite have enough time to truly slack out on this project.

That BTC you put up, though...  I just didnʻt have the time to look at it.  Plus I hate android development.  I hate looking at java.  That shit burnt my soul...